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24 Cheshvan 5763 - October 30, 2002 | Mordecai Plaut, director Published Weekly
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Shema Yisrael Torah Network

Opinion & Comment
The Transmission of the Torah from Generation to Generation:
An Interview with HaRav Zvi Markowitz

by Rav A. Chefetz

Part III

This is the third part of an interview with HaRav Tzvi Markowitz that took place before Pesach of last year. HaRav Markowitz is the rosh yeshiva of the Karlin yeshiva, a member of the Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah of Degel Hatorah and one of the senior gedolei Torah in Eretz Yisroel.

In the first part of the interview, HaRav Markowitz spoke mostly about the integrity of the mesorah and how we can know that we have essentially the same Torah as our forefathers had. He noted that all our Torah comes through the Vilna Gaon, who is therefore its guarantor.

In the second part, HaRav Markowitz spoke about the important of learning quickly enough to acquire familiarity with Shas, eventually. He also said that the increasing troubles of Klal Yisroel require us especially to improve our fulfillment of loving our neighbors and removing baseless hatred.

The Four Sons

We met Rav Markowitz on erev Rosh Chodesh Nisan and he now opened a Chumash to tell us about a fundamental point that we learn from the Haggodoh:

The Torah addresses four types of boys. There are many types of boys and of people, but these "Four Boys" cover all the categories. Some people have a mixture of qualities (part- tam, part-rosho or part- chochom, part- rosho and so on) and all these types are subcategories of the major categories the Torah tells us about: chochom, rosho, tam, she'eino yodei'a lish'ol. The chochom asks, "What are all these laws for?" and our answer to him is, "Ein maftirin achar hapesach afikomon." What does this mean? This statement contains many hints and explanations, but the simple explanation is as follows:

This halocho stems from the principle of chibuv mitzvah: "In order that a taste of the matzo should remain in his mouth." Therefore, the chochom who wants to know about the eidos, chukim and mishpotim "you tell him according to hilchos hapesach," i.e. tell him all the halochos until "ein maftirin achar hapesach," which is a chibuv mitzvah. This too you must tell him, because if the chochom wants to continue to elevate himself and to merit the light of Hashem, he has to aspire to perfection, and you must tell him how to achieve that.

How do we merit this? By fulfilling with perfection the posuk, "The Torah of Hashem is perfect restoring the soul" -- when does it restore the soul? When it is perfect, when all the eidos and chukim are observed; with the elements of hiddur mitzvah and chibuv mitzvah we can merit the closeness of Hashem.

The rosho says, "What is this avodoh? (Shemos 12:26)" We are commanded to respond by being makheh his teeth, not hitting (with a kof) but blunting them, weakening their sharpness, thereby preventing him from biting with them. This is our job. How do we do it?

If we look carefully at this section in the Torah, we will see that no answer is given to the rosho. The answer to the rosho is to be found in the section of the eino yodei'a lish'ol, where the Torah says, Vehigadeto lebincho (Shemos 13:7), that you should tell your son she'eino yodei'a lish'ol that "because of this Hashem did [these things] for me when I went out of Egypt" -- for me and not for him; if he had been there, he would not have been redeemed' (see the Vilna Gaon's commentary for further details). Why is the answer to the rosho contained in vehigadeto lebincho?

Because that is the Torah's way of dealing with him:

The rosho does not come to ask. He has no desire to listen, he only wants to talk. With him it does not say, "When your son will come to ask you," as it says with the other sons, but only, "when your sons will say to you." He is not interested in hearing. His aim is to weaken and damage. Therefore there was no need whatsoever to respond to his statement. But since his words are caustic, [and] he acts with the purpose of attracting simple people and the she'eino yodei'a lish'ol to his cause, it is incumbent upon us to weaken his bite [sting]; to blunt his teeth.

How do we do that? By teaching the she'eino yodei'a lish'ol and saving him from those who wish to do him harm.

In brief, this is how matters should be run: The elite of the nation -- the chareidim, the Yeshiva world and Torah Jewry -- have to aspire to perfection to perform mitzvos with chibuv mitzvah and hiddur mitzvah, to learn Torah and yir'oh and superlative middos in order to merit the light of Hashem. As for the rest of the nation, there is no purpose investing in reshoim. Our only goal is to save the she'eino yodei'a lish'ol from them.

Vehigadeto Lebincho

It has to be stressed that real reshoim are few and far between. The immigrants from Russia are certainly tinnokos shenishbu. But even those who were born here and received a deficient education are also tinnokos shenishbu, in accordance with the ruling of the Chazon Ish that the bad education of our generation Rachmono litzlan gives them the status of tinnokos shenishbu, since the masses of the nation are held captive by the educational system and the media, which fills them with poison, alienation and hatred towards Torah and observant Jews.

Once, a secular neighbor asked me to help him with something, and when he came into my house and I discussed the matter with him he was surprised by the intelligence of the rabbis and how they behaved towards him. He asked me to speak at the weekly "discussion group" held by his friends, but when he suggested this to his friends they got a shock: "That we can't agree to!" they told him. These are tinnokos shenishbu, and our job is to invest a lot of effort in them.

That is the sad reality. In the past the she'eino yodei'a lish'ol was depicted as an innocent, pitiable child (once there used to be illustrated Haggodos . . . ) but today in order to qualify as a she'eino yodei'a lish'ol you can be a leader, a judge, a professor and so on. The problem is that not only do those important personages lack the knowledge that they do not know, but they are quite convinced that they know the answers . . . that is why it is hard to get to them.

We have to help them by way of at pesach lo. Pesach and yetzias Mitzrayim are the root of all the redemptions. May we merit the Geuloh with Hashem's help, speedily in our days, and when Hashem will return the captivity of Tzion, we will no longer say that we "will be" like unto those that dream but that we were like them, because in the future we will realize how everything resulted in good and redemption.

*

It had been no easy task to have the rov agree to an interview, but we were amply rewarded. At the end of our meeting the Rosh Yeshiva, in his modesty, wanted to apologize: In our generation the media and the adverts are the bread [and butter of our society]. That is the reality. This bread can serve a useful purpose by satisfying us, but it can also poison [us] by feeding our lust for publicity, fame, honor, and pride. Therefore, even if someone knows that having his statements publicized in print will serve a useful purpose, he still bears a personal responsibility to examine and search the extent to which he is interested in serving this purpose or serving his own honor. Although it is difficult nowadays to speak of "running away from honor" we are still certainly obliged to guard ourselves against "running after honor."

In our case, [this means acting] "cautiously with journalists . . . ", the Rosh Yeshiva smiled with a fatherly apology. "I, like everybody else, had to examine myself. Therefore, I am sure that you will not be upset about the difficulty you encountered [in arranging this interview]."

At this point we asked him, "But didn't Rav Shimon Shkop agree that his talmidim could celebrate in his presence the fiftieth anniversary of his serving as [Rosh Yeshiva]?" The rov answered this as follows:

"It's true that since this event was of benefit to the Yeshiva, which was in financial straits at the time, he agreed to the publication of a fiftieth anniversary pamphlet with articles about him and chiddushei Torah so that the Yeshiva's financial situation might improve as a result of the publicity. Still, let me answer your question by referring to an interesting letter by HaRav Chaim Ozer Grodzensky ztvk'l in that same booklet in which he hints at his attitude in general to the topic of [fiftieth] anniversary celebrations.

He writes as follows: "Many of the top talmidim of HaGaon Hagodol HaRav Shimon Yehuda HaKohen Shkop shlita, including great and famous rabbonim, have roused themselves to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of their esteemed and elderly rov who has been sitting in the Yeshiva disseminating Torah to the public for fifty years, starting at Telz Yeshiva in his youth and now at Shaarei Torah in Hordona in his old age. In their letters and articles they portray a picture of the image and character of the beloved Rav Shimon. I know his pure and refined character and his modesty, and [I am sure that] he will feel uncomfortable about these praises and consider them as a burden. The same applies to the whole idea of yovel celebrations, which is not a custom that is practiced by `elder rabbonim.' However, Rav Shimon `Ho'amsuni' [name of a Tanna, literally "the burdened one"], who carries the holy burden of the Yeshiva on his shoulders, is forced to [go against his natural inclinations] and bear this burden too for the sake of creating a source of income for the Yeshiva and easing its heavy burden of debts which have disturbed his peace of mind . . . "

HaRav Markowitz reverted to the previous topic: "You were unmindful of the Rock that begot you, and forgot Hashem who bore you" (Devorim 32:18), on which Rashi writes: "Chazal expounded that when He comes to do good to you, you make Him angry and weaken His ability to do good to you." This may be the explanation for the fear of the situation in Eretz Yisroel in light of the confusion and uncertain situation here, when "we searched intensively for the redemption, but it did not come, for peace, but it was destroyed, many have arisen against us, have exalted themselves and become haughty."

May Hashem have mercy upon us. We are already in a situation of, "For Hashem will judge His people, and repent Himself for His servants, when He sees that their stay is gone, and there is none remaining, shut up or left at large" (Devorim 32:36). Everybody sees that there is no one to rely on. May we merit the fulfillment of the posuk, "As in the days of your coming forth out of the land of Egypt, will I show him marvelous things" (Michah 7:15).

On Ahavas Yisroel

In the course of our conversation HaRav Markowitz referred us to the following excerpt from his book, which clearly illustrates the point he is making:

The litmus test of a person's hatred and love is actually most clearly seen in respect to those closest to him and with whom he spends the most time! The Torah says that "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," your friend to whom you are close and with whom you have a close relationship. "You shall not hate your brother in your heart." The reference is to your brother, because everybody is willing to love every Jew except for several people with whom he is in direct contact: it is only natural that their individual interests will clash rather frequently, and so he will also clash with them.

Why shouldn't a person love everybody, all those masses of people far away, that he never meets? It does not require much effort to feel love towards them, a love that calls for no action on his part and is not an expression of anything. It is a very pleasant experience to feel those empty feelings of love.

However, those people whom he knows very well, if he is in everyday contact with them in his house or neighborhood, in his office, place of work or business, in his social life or [political] party, whose outlook is frequently at odds with his, and with whom he has to share things that he would very happily have kept for himself, and they appear to be in his way all the time - - these people he is willing to devour, he accumulates feelings of hatred towards them, it is only them that he does not love, he does not tolerate them, in fact he hates them somewhat . . .

Such a person does not know the meaning of loving your fellow man. He has not tasted even a small element of its beauty. In fact he has not passed the initial test of such love and is filled with self-love.

Let a person not think to himself: I love every Jewish person, so what does it matter if I cannot stand a few dozen people here and there? This person must realize that it is only and specifically with respect to such people that his ahavas Yisroel is put to the test. Love and hatred are real concepts that obligate us towards certain [thoughts, feelings and behavior].

Any talk of abstract, empty ahavas Yisroel towards a mere abstract entity of "Jews" is just idle talk. The Torah deals with real, practical matters. Ahavas Yisroel is real, active, and binding. It applies to people that are around you twenty-four hours a day, people with whom you have business relations, with whom you clash and fight -- only there does love of your fellow man begin.

(Binesivos Ho'emunoh -- first edition -- Binesivos Chayeinu, ch.6, pg. 233).


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