To mark the sheloshim of the av beis din
of Shearis Yisroel, HaRav Chaim Shaul Karelitz
zt'l, we present this interview with his long-
time friend and associate, HaRav Yehoshua Shklar
ylct'a, author of Yalkut Peirushim.
The two learned together bechavrusa on an almost
daily basis, for forty years. HaRav Shklar's
reminiscences give us some idea of the extent of his
chavrusa's contribution to the Torah community in
Eretz Yisroel.
First Encounter
HaRav Shklar: In 5712 (1952), the Chazon Ish
zy'a, sent me to learn in the kollel in
Petach Tikva. In that kollel, young and old sat
side by side, all learning together. It was there that I
met Reb Chaim Shaul zt', for the first time. The
intensity of the learning in the kollel was
incredible. The shouting and yelling among those
immersed in Torah study pierced the heavens. Opposite
the kollel, was a courthouse. From time to time,
a Yemenite policeman named Simchi would appear and order
us to stop shouting. "You are disturbing the judge from
running the court in an orderly manner!"
It was at that time that Reb Chaim Shaul first
shouldered the problem of the Yemenite immigrants,
perhaps out of a wish to prevent more of them from
becoming policemen. This was after the massive Fake-
Magic Carpet aliya of the Sephardim, which in fact
was an aliya, an ascent, that led to a descent! A
venerable delegation of Yemenite elders arrived from
Rosh Ha'ayin [where one of the large camps for Yemenite
immigrants was situated]. They asked to be rescued
spiritually. "Give us seforim, gemora,
mishnayos." Their main need was for finances, to
support a mori [their title for a rabbi] to learn
with their children. Who was the one who went to collect
for this? Reb Chaim Shaul of course. He and the
gaon and tzaddik Rav Zeev Eidelman
zt'l, went out onto the streets to collect money.
The sums which they collected were sent to Rosh Ha'ayin
and the mori inculcated some Yiddishkeit
into the children. This was how Reb Chaim Shaul
inaugurated his own glorious chapter in the general
efforts to rescue Yemenite Jewry spiritually.
Against All Odds
While I was still learning in Ponevezh, there had been
attempts to achieve something inside the immigrant camps
Rosh Ha'ayin. The situation there was terrible. The
immigrants were under virtual arrest, enclosed inside
barbed wire fences. This has to be made known, so that
future generations are aware of it!
The immigrants were scared out of their wits by their
situation. As Purim approached, we gathered in one of
the yeshiva's dormitory rooms, to try and think of some
idea. In the morning, the order was given for each
bochur to provision himself with a bottle of arak
whiskey. We travelled to Rosh Ha'ayin. We knew which was
the easiest side from which to penetrate inside the
camp. We hid, cut through the barbed wire, and went
inside. We distributed the bottles of arak among the
olim and began to dance . . . Layehudim hoyso
oroh vesimchoh . . . suddenly, policemen burst upon
us and drove us away with the butts of their rifles.
In time, it became somewhat easier to work in Rosh
Ha'ayin. That was when HaRav Chaim Shaul opened a high
level class. It aimed to educate youths from among the
olim to Torah greatness. Rav Yechiel Wislovsky
learned with the boys.
Q. What was Rav Chaim Shaul's job?
A. He was the "father" of the class! The students
subsequently gained entry into the best yeshivos. In
addition, Rav Chaim Shaul travelled up and down the
country scores of times in order to get boys into
yeshivos. He travelled to Haifa, Ramat Hasharon, Acco,
Tiveria, Adirim and Be'er Sheva. He didn't rest for a
moment, so concerned was he that not one of them should
be left without a yeshiva!
While his work bore fruit, there was one major problem:
the parents wanted their sons to have a means of earning
a living, that being something that they would not learn
in yeshiva. What was a revolutionary idea for those
times was suggested: to bring the gemora lessons
forward to the morning, instead of the usual afternoon
slot. This was in 5717 (1957). Rav Chaim Shaul was
working within the Chinuch Atzmai framework.
Ultimately, Rav Aharon Kotler took on the responsibility
of financing the project and things started to move. The
simple step of moving the limudei kodesh to the
morning hours turned them into the primary focus of the
day, and the other studies secondary. In 5719 (1959), a
country wide gemora examination was organized, in
order to boost the standard of the learning. Rav Chaim
Shaul was the one who tested the students.
Q. And as av beis din of Shearis Yisroel,
did he stop testing the pupils of talmud Torah
Tashbar?
A. Absolutely not! He leaped like a lion to test
the children, with the vitality of a young man. The
children who saw his enthusiasm remembered it. When we
learned in one of the rooms in Tashbar, Rav Chaim
Shaul's voice would rise in the course of our learning.
The sweet children would stand outside and hear our
yelling. Those childhood memories accompany them to this
day, as mature avreichim.
In general, his energy was extraordinary. When he was
eighty- seven years old, he joined us for a family
simchah. He arrived at the hall straight from the
airport and danced with me like one of the
youngsters.
Rav Karelitz is Right!
The greater the number of youths wanting to join the
yeshivos, the more important it became to enable the
yeshivos to accept them. The yeshivos ketanos
were in a difficult position financially. The parents
usually shouldered some of the burden of the tuition but
it was impossible to ask this of the new immigrants, who
themselves lacked livelihoods. In addition, there were
also understandable problems in dealing with boys who
did not come from Torah-oriented homes.
A meeting that took place in the Wagshal Hotel [in Bnei
Brak] attempted to find solutions. Following the
meeting, an organization called Nesiv Hatorah was set
up. It undertook to see that no bochur would be
turned away because of financial considerations. Rav
Eliyahu Raful travelled abroad to raise funds. Rav Chaim
Shaul collected in Bnei Brak and I did in Petach Tikva.
Rav Chaim Shaul ran from one yeshiva to another with the
dynamism of a young man. He ensured that the students
were accepted and that a stipend of twenty-five
lirot was received for each one.
The boys grew older. There was no Sephardi yeshiva
gedolah for them in Bnei Brak. We went to see Rav
Pardo zt'l, from Or Hachaim, and we asked him,
"Who will marry the young ladies who graduate from Or
Hachaim? No yeshiva gedolah exists [for boys of a
similar type]!"
Rav Pardo declared, "Rav Karelitz and Rav Shklar are
right." As a result, Yeshivas Or Hachaim was opened.
Meeting the Changing Needs
The increase in the numbers of bochurim who were
being placed in yeshivos necessitated the cooperation of
all the yeshivos. To obtain this, a meeting was held in
the Hotel Eretz Yisroel in Tel Aviv. This was forty
years ago.
The leading roshei yeshiva participated and it
was resolved to focus our efforts in order to improve
the situation. HaRav Yechezkel Sarna zt'l
announced at the meeting that Yeshivas Chevron undertook
to heighten its efforts at working with these young men.
He even told Rav Chaim Shaul that he was ready and
willing to travel together with him to any place
necessary, in order to ensure success. And he did indeed
travel and help as much as he was able.
A second meeting was held several years later, in the
Lederman shul. That meeting was headed by our
masters the Steipler zt'l, and ylct'a,
HaRav Shach. There are those who try to obscure the past
but Rav Chaim Shaul was the first to work for the
spiritual rescue of the Sephardic youth in Eretz
Yisroel. Nothing was done without him. He made all the
decisions.
Klal Yisroel's Children
I'll never forget the bochur who was found
sitting and crying by the door of Rav Chaim Shaul's
home. He complained that he had not been accepted into a
certain yeshiva. Rav Chaim Shaul enquired at the yeshiva
and it transpired that while the bochur would be
able to join the yeshiva's learning sedorim, the
institution was unable to provide for his material
needs. Rav Chaim Shaul spoke to other bochurim
who learned there, and they undertook to see to meals
for the new arrival. The problem of accommodation was
solved by Rav Chaim Shaul's renting a room next to the
yeshiva, where the bochur dormed for a year. At
the beginning of the following year, he was fully
accepted into the yeshiva.
Last year, at the prize giving for Sephardi bnei
Torah, Rav Chaim Shaul stood on the dais and
contemplated the tens of first rate bochurim
sitting opposite him, from such places as Dimona, Ofakim
and Be'er Sheva. Suddenly, he started to dance, just
like a young child, Ashreinu, mah tov chelkeinu . . .
!
He ascended to Heaven in the week that we read the
words, "When he avenged My vengeance" [which are written
about Pinchos]. It was once proposed to add a ninth
grade to the Chinuch Atzmai schools, which would have
meant the students spending another year learning
secular subjects.
A certain rabbi arrived from the United States, trying
to persuade the Chinuch Atzmai to copy the pattern of
the American high schools, where secular studies
continue all the way through the yeshiva ketanoh
years. In the middle of the meeting, Rav Chaim Shaul
arose and cried out, "Die kinder zennen Klal
Yisroel's kinder! The children belong to Klal
Yisroel and you can't do what you want with
them!"
The plan was dropped. That was Rav Chaim Shaul.
The very establishment of Shearis Yisroel was not a
straightforward operation. During that period, I would
accompany him home after our learning. I wanted to
prevent, were the need to arise, any attempts to shame
or disgrace him, that his detractors might try to
perpetrate. He himself however, was completely
unafraid.
In his communal work, he carried the banner that HaRav
Shach had raised aloft. He was ready immediately for any
job that he was called upon to do.
Nisht Krum!
Q. Did you learn together every day?
A. Almost every day. I would hurry to talmud
Torah Tashbar every afternoon to learn with him.
Sometimes we learned in his home and sometimes, in the
offices of Vaad Hakashrus. Wherever I was able to learn
with him, I would go. When I was working on the book
Yalkut Peirushim, I would prepare the
sugya well beforehand. When I arrived to learn, I
was the first to speak. I would start saying something
and he would spring on me, "You're contradicting the
Shach!"
I wondered where this Shach was. Rav Chaim Shaul
went over to shelf and showed me which words of the
Shach's were incompatible with what I'd said. He
was a gaon, but everything was hidden. At his
advanced age and in his dignified position, he would go
to hear others speaking, without any embarrassment
whatsoever.
While we learned in Tashbar, we would use the tea room.
He himself would dry the table and arrange the place so
that it was fit for learning in.
When we learned in the offices of Vaad Hakashrus, he
would disengage himself from the vast array of concerns
and within minutes be deeply immersed in the
sugyos of Yeish Nochalim or Arvei
Pesochim.
He used to learn with tremendous enthusiasm. His cries
pierced the heavens. Once, a sales agent from Gush Katif
encountered us. Upon hearing the cries, he reacted with
mock panic, "What's going on here? You're trying to kill
each other!"
In his enthusiasm for learning, he would sometimes yell
at me, "Am ho'oretz!" I took these expressions
seriously. For me, they served as pointers towards
straightening my understanding.
He would demand, "Nisht krum! Nisht krichen oif die
vant! Not crooked! Don't climb the wall! Just learn
the peshat in the proper way!" He was the classic
example of ligen in learning, of immersion in
learning.
All Worthwhile
Two days before he passed away, I was with him in the
hospital. He smiled at me and made a gesture of
greeting. The professor attending him said that his body
was no longer functioning but that his mind was as clear
as that of a young person.
Now he has arrived in the World of Truth and is meeting
all the gedolei Yisroel on whose behalf he fought
for the sake of Torah education. He is telling them,
"Your work is going on!" and is greeting them with the
news that, "The bochurim are attending yeshivos;
it was all worthwhile."
When one visits Itzkovitz [the famous shtieblach
in the heart of Bnei Brak] today, one sees hundreds
and thousands [coming to daven]. One sometimes
forgets that there were people who paved the way for the
growth of the Torah world. Rav Chaim Shaul was one of
the trailblazers of the Torah world!